But on to a new topic today. How is Baptism most often celebrated in your parish? From Luther's Taufbüchlein it is clear that the prevailing practice was baptism outside of the Divine Service. In our day, I suspect that it is quite the opposite.
I'm torn between the two. On the one hand I like to use the full baptismal liturgy and setting this Sacrament apart with its own service. On the other hand, if one makes a habit of this the congregation rarely gets to see a baptism. But using the whole Baptismal liturgy in the Divine Service is often impossible because of scheduling on Sunday morning (my early service simply cannot run 15 minutes over, for example, or I cannot make it to the second parish on time).
At right please note what the prevailing practice is at your parish and in the comments give your thoughts on this pastoral dilemma.
+HRC
By "in the Divine Service" I mean following the first hymn but before Confession or the Service proper. Technically that might be considered outside the Service but still before the assembly. That of course does not affect the question of scheduling constraints.
ReplyDeleteEver since reading Sasse on this, I've had no problem whatsoever with the historic practice of celebrating outside the Divine Liturgy (though our famous Gehardt man is quite right - it is STILL outside the Divine Service when before Introit). I leave it up to the families. We have I'd guess about 50% done before Introit; about 25% done FOLLOWING a liturgy; about 25% done at a different time entirely, sometimes in the hospital (premies and such).
ReplyDeleteCorrect brothers: I was imprecise. You guessed correctly at my intent.
ReplyDelete+HRC
I do not intend to have my children baptized during the Divine Service. They will be baptized in the hospital the day they are born, and if my Aunt ________ can't be there, tough. If my congregations don't get to see the kid baptized, tough. The baptism isn't for them.
ReplyDeleteThat said - every baptism I've done here has been in the Divine Service, except for an adult in the hospital and one other family situation.
An interesting poll question could be regarding dropping confession and absolution when a baptism is celebrated before the Divine Service.
ReplyDeleteTo clarify my answer (Selection #1): Prior to the Introit -- and C&A is omitted.
ReplyDeleteI think that one of the great gifts to the congregation is to stand as witness to the testament of baptism. The baptismal liturgy teaches as well as anything what we believe, teach, and confess regarding this sacrament. I seldom baptize at the church and outside of the Divine Service. It seems to me that baptism outside the Divine Service tends to promote the idea that this is a private sacrament and not a public one -- a dangerous idea. Plus, and I am shamed to admit it, this is one way of getting the rest of the family into Church -- especially when they have sometimes been more regularly absent than present...
ReplyDeleteFr. Peters,
ReplyDeleteYou'll not hear me chastise you for such practical considerations! I've tended to favor baptisms not on Sunday morning because then the whole extended family can come and I don't have to get into arguments and long explanations about closed communion!
Sigh.
+HRC
Fr. Curtis
ReplyDelete(this is sarcasm) Why not just skip communion on Sundays when there is a Baptism... it will make the service shorter and then you won't need those long explanations anyway. Besides, do we really need to see more than 1 sacrament on every Sunday. We wouldn't want people to go into Sacramental overload. (end the sarcasm)
Fr. Peters,
There is much good about having the Baptismal service in Church. I will say nothing against one who does that (indeed, I was myself). However, when it comes to my own kids - my mom was a delivery nurse for a while. I'm paranoid. I'll probably have a nurse in the room ready to baptize the kid if he or she looks ill in any way, shape, or form. Worst case planning.
I have done many baptisms in the hospital, sadly, most of the children baptized received the heavenly completion of their baptismal life too soon to be welcomed into the congregation. What troubles me are the numbers of baptisms in the hospital for which there is no public rite of recognition of that baptism. It is left, as it were, as a private act or rite, far removed from the parish itself. This is troublesome, indeed.
ReplyDeleteWe recently had a poll regarding the handling of the remaining elements in the Lord's Supper. How are we to handle the water used in baptism? Our actions should serve to reinforce our teaching about the sacrament.
ReplyDeleteDr. Scaer used to lament that during the prayers found in the service of baptism pastors would turn their backs on the font and face the altar (with their back end right at font level) rather than taking the opportunity to acknowledge that the gracious Presence of the Holy Trinity is found at the font, located there by the Dominical Word.
In other Lutheran "chat rooms" I used to participate in (not any longer) there would sometimes be discussions about the Baptisms of infants and many times people would write things (I think only half-joking or perhaps not at all joking) along the lines of this, "If you don't have that baby baptized immediately you had better wrap him up in bubble wrap to make sure nothing happens to him!" I don't quite understand this theology. It seems to present us with some kind of fearsome god who is just rubbing his hands together waiting to throw the souls of infants into hell because their parents waited "too long" and this vengeful god caught them out on a technicality. I don't advocate waiting for years or even months, and I realize we don't want to introduce doubt, but I hope we don't mistakenly give the impression that God is somehow looking to send people away from His Presence, rather than to draw all people to Himself, which He does through Baptism and which He can do apart from it too.
ReplyDeleteFr. Anderson,
ReplyDeleteI encourage early baptism. I can see no reason to wait to give this gift to my own children and so I encourage the same in my parishioners - some of whom listen and others of whom do not.
It's an interesting tension in our theology on this point. Luther's baptismal rite, and all others that I am familiar with, assumes saving faith on the part of the baptizand. At the same time, the rite assumes they are in the devil's kingdom and must be exorcised.
When parents tragically lose children prior to baptism they should be comforted along the lines of Luther in his writing to women who have suffered miscarriage: where we lack other promises, we have the promise that God hears our prayers for Christ's sake for this child.
But if there is any chance to avoid such tragedy, it should be seized upon. Baptism is a gift that an infant can receive - why would we wait to give it to them?
+HRC
Matthew Johnson,
ReplyDeleteThe water in the font is to be poured onto consecrated ground, or if that is not easily available any patch of ground.
The idea is that the water should not be used for any lesser purpose after it has service in baptism.
Of course, this is a matter of piety in the church. We can't chuck the Jordan River into the ground and stop people from pumping raw sewage into it.
We just heard Dr. Scaer much the same at Gottesdienst. I must say I don't get what he's after. (He also said something I found quite odd about Christ's Presence before the Verba.) In what sense is the Holy Trinity "in the water" before the actual baptism when I'm praying Luther's Flood Prayer in the LSB rite?
I did not have the honor of having Dr. Scaer in class, so I'm sure this just needs to be explained to me further. . .
+HRC
Pr. Curtis,
ReplyDeleteSurely there are a few differences between baptismal water and reliquiae? The Trinity is present in Baptism, but bodily present? And isn't it the case that Baptism is itself an action ("washing"), whereas the Lord's Supper is itself a "thing", namely, the Body and Blood of Christ (Luther's Small Catechism)?
What did Dr. Scaer say?
I do encourage early Baptism. I certainly do not want to give the impression that I want people to drag things on and on so that they can get a party planned, etc. In cases where I see this happening, I do not hesitate to proclaim the Law of God to such people as well the Gospel Promises that Baptism gives. At the same time, I do not want people to see God as being capricious concerning the date of Baptism (that one day after birth is better than waiting a week and if you wait a week or two, you are sinning). I extol the gifts that Baptism gives, and then pray they will want those gifts sooner rather than later for their child (after about a month I start hounding).
ReplyDelete