Friday, November 2, 2012

Mormonism update


  1. All this talk of Missouri and a thousand years reign are okay, I guess, but what I really want to know from the empty chair is this: so when do I get my own planet?

    Your (unworthy) servant,
    Herr Doktor

  2. Herr Doktor,

    I'm more concerned over the splitting of the Mount of Olives in the midst of a war in the mideast where everybody's coming in to "kill all the Jews." If that is part of your eschatology, then I don't really want you in control of the war machine. Same would go for goof ball evangelicals with similar eschatology, or Shia 13th Imam types. I prefer it when the folks with their fingers on the trigger are firmly earthly secularists who think this world is all they get. Keeps wars down. So I'll take Taft the peacenik Unitarian over McKinley the Evangelical Christian walking the halls of the White House seeking divine approbation for the invasion of the Philippines any day.

    But the Gentiles will constantly be lording it over each other, wars and rumors of war and all that. So let come what may and the Lord will shepherd His Church into His Kingdom in His own good time despite Pope, Turk, and Mormon weirdos.


  3. What is the point of posting this days before the election? The details actually convince me that Romney is not a political fanatic when it comes to millenialism, but that he's solidly pro-life. But to someone who only looks at this video cursorily it could sway him to vote against Romney just because he's Mormon. Bottom line: This is not a political blog, and I certainly don't agree with this post.

  4. I think we're all going to be learning a lot more about Mormonism after the election. Billy Graham has already reconsidered Mormonism's "cult" status and is cozying up to it as perhaps a sect rather than a heresy. I don't see how suppressing videos and information until after the election can be a good thing. Truth is truth, whether on November 6 or 7. As this is not a political blog, I don't think the election date should sway when we discuss the theology of popular religious impulses. Mormonism is a truly American religion. I do expect to see it grow in stature in the coming years. Tghe good news is that both Mormonism and Islam (both of which are growing in numbers in the U.S.) are both solidly pro-life. That seems to be the silver lining here.

  5. I'm certainly not for the banning of videos (contra the Administration, incidentally), but I do question the timing here. I happen to be for Romney as a political matter. He has never indicated that his millenialist views would affect his middle east policy. Romney seems more concerned with fighting terrorism, it seems to me. So are you saying you wouldn't vote for him just because of his religion's stance on Israel? I don't see anything in Romney himself that would make him fanatical. On the contrary he seems very level-headed.

  6. Fritz,

    Why post it today? Because that's when I happened to find it and I think it is very interesting from a religious perspective. Why post it here? Because this is a religious blog and Mormonism is going to be big news if Mr. Romney becomes Mr. President.

    Furthermore, in my response to Herr Doktor I mentioned the reason I think it is most important to talk about such things from a religious perspective: our hope is not in this world. Trust not in princes. This is a constant LCMS failing, in my humble opinion. No matter who is president, no matter how batty he is, no matter if he grew up in Muslim schools (and Barry Soetoro certainly did) and became a liberation-liberal Christian (as Barry O has become) or is a devout Mormon (Mr. Romney), the Lord is in control. Fear not little flock. . .

    If it makes you feel any better, I also don't support the other guy for similar reasons: he's a war monger for the good old fashioned reasons of money and power. I don't want his finger on the trigger, either.

    But one of them - the quasi-Christian Muslim-empathizer or the Magic Underwear Mormon - is almost certainly going to get his finger on the trigger. That makes for some very interesting religious-political interaction in country. We should be thinking about it, no matter whom we will vote for (or if we chose none of the above).


  7. I don't think Bishop Romney is in any danger of losing the LCMS vote - like many in the LCMS, he believes in the sanctity of Mizzurah. I do find it troublesome that many politicians, like Romney, hold militantly pro-Israel religious beliefs. I do speak with a little first hand knowledge here.

    I grew up in a Dispensationalist church that believed the modern secular State of Israel (rather than the Holy Christian Church) was God's chosen people, and that it was America's duty to protect the Israelis at all costs - even by nuking Arabs if need be. This had nothing to do with terrorism. It was millennialist fervor. And Ronald Reagan and Newt Gingrich rode the Moral Majority wave into office.

    Glenn Beck has suddenly become very popular, as has Mr. Romney, as well as the artist that is popular for depicting Obama treading on the constitution (the artist is also a Mormon who believes the Constitution and Declaration of Independence are as sacred as the Bible). This is something worth noting. It may or may not effect one's vote - but ostrich-heading about it is not helpful. It is what it is.

    John Ashcroft, attorney general during the Bush administration, whom I'm sure is a very nice guy and devout Christian, also had some unusual beliefs - including his ritual anointing with cooking oil at the hand of Clarence Thomas upon taking office. After his term ended, he became a lobbyist for Israel Aircraft Industries International. That was part of the package in electing an administration that appointed him.

    I believe it to be naive to say that the beliefs of these fundamentalist Christians, of sects, and of cults, have no effect on their politics or on the foreign policy and military actions of the United States.

    Like I said, I grew up immersed in this brand of Christianity, where we believed that Jesus' coming would be hastened if we nuked the Arabs. We looked forward to Armageddon and our church leaders would have gladly tipped over the first domino to make Jesus come back.

    If the constitution still limited the executive branch, if the Congress still upheld its responsibility to declare war, I would not care what the president believed. It wouldn't matter. It does concern me that one man has unilateral authority to kill even American citizens or detain them indefinitely with no due process on his word alone, can with the push of a button annihilate billions - and his religion would encourage that kind of relationship with a foreign country that happened to take a name from the Bible. The best thing we can hope for is that governor Romney really doesn't believe in Mormonism and is as lukewarm as many Christians are.

    Let's hope he really doesn't buy all the hoo-hah about the modern nation of Israel, and that he is just playing along for the sake of popularity. It would be a real blessing if Romney doesn't really believe his religion.

    Let's hope and pray he is a hypocrite. Amen!

  8. As a PS: there are some of God's Chosen People in Israel. They are the Arab Palestinian Christians who have been treated like the Jews in Germany by their own government. I don't expect anyone to speak up for them no matter who wins the beauty contest next week.

  9. I don't think it's his religious confession in this video that might sway anyone to vote against him; it's his inability to remain calm. He showcased this tendency to lose his cool plenty during the debates. Is public demeanor important for a president—particularly when being criticized or asked to defend a position? Thankfully, no one would criticize a sitting president...


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