tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post7247172006721474947..comments2023-11-05T02:55:10.230-06:00Comments on Gottesdienst Online: The end of a professional clergy?Pr. H. R.http://www.blogger.com/profile/16756503062523543708noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-66653350413063031972012-11-12T11:00:37.576-06:002012-11-12T11:00:37.576-06:00I concur with your comments, Fr. Curtis. I would ...I concur with your comments, Fr. Curtis. I would simply add this, in regards to the problem, and this is not from the standpoint of the DP hierarchy, but from the congregational level (I have no hard numbers to back up this claim by the way). I would venture to say that for the vast majority of the congregations, the issue is not, "not being able to support a full-time pastor," but instead, "refusing to support a full-time pastor." A large part of the problem then, is the refusal of DPs to "put their foot down" in such situations, which is what you have pointed out. In short, it is a failure of the DPs to hold the congregations accountable. When a congregation knows it can peacefully exist with a hireling at the helm, without fear of rebuke and correction, it will gladly do that. <br /><br />I simply do not buy the "economic downturn" argument when it comes to these matters, not when the majority of the members of congregations do not even come close to the tithe, let alone go beyond the tithe, which they are free to do. The reality is, this is a spiritual problem, not a financial one. The Rev. Mike Grievehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05902941965399294815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-68589404857716536912012-11-11T21:01:02.052-06:002012-11-11T21:01:02.052-06:00"It was not so much of what was said as the w...<i>"It was not so much of what was said as the way<br />in which it was said."</i> -- after G. Keillor, after L. Jenkins<br /><br />Therein lies the problem. The problem with the "deprofessionalized" preaching, as Fr. Curtis notes, is that it is a de-Dominicalized" preaching. It lacks the Authority's Voice. Then it must come down to the treble of the vocal cords, or the gleaming of the teeth, or the quality of the juggling. And for the Hound of Heaven, as Flannery O'Connor would have mused, that dog simply won't hunt.<br /><br />Your (unworthy) servant,<br />Herr Doktor Michael L. Anderson, M.D., Ph.Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13158953802996685938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-23318741560491137202012-11-11T08:16:20.468-06:002012-11-11T08:16:20.468-06:00Father Curtis,
Thank you. I figured that's ho...Father Curtis,<br /><br />Thank you. I figured that's how you arrived at the number. <br /><br />Side note. When I was on vicarage, my supervisor made me keep a log of everything I did and then make a report out of it to the Church Council every month.<br /><br />Result: 95 hours a week. Do you know how much of that was in keeping the stupid log and writing the stupid report? More than I want to remember. <br /><br />Father Beane hit it on the head. My wife tellss me I pray for people in my sleep. I formulate sermons and preach them in my sleep. I hold meetings in my sleep. I guess I do minister to the flock 24/7. <br /><br />Anyway, I digress. Great article brother. Keep them coming.John Wursthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11984130666096167978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-15959033127399595282012-11-10T17:06:35.009-06:002012-11-10T17:06:35.009-06:00Of course, the ministry also has a 24-7 component ...Of course, the ministry also has a 24-7 component to it - not only the sense of being "on call" all the time, but also how even time not directly "working" as a pastor finds its way into theological thought, into sermons, into evangelism, etc. This can be tough for lay people to understand - especially if the congregation wants an accounting of how the pastor's time is spent. <br /><br />I doubt that I'm alone here, but it still surprises me how often I wake up in the morning realizing that I have been studying my text in my sleep! I'm often praying or pondering pastoral care matters while commuting to my secular job. Even reading fluff about rock stars or deep economic topics often sparks thoughts concerning pastoral care situations. The life of the pastor is not compartmentalized to where we can easily give an accounting of our time. <br /><br />I'm sure there are many vocations like this, but of all the jobs and stations in life I have held, this one is unique. I guess that's why pastor is properly a noun, and can only be stretched unnaturally into a verb.Rev. Larry Beanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06705910892752648940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-38044894899542648792012-11-10T16:04:05.037-06:002012-11-10T16:04:05.037-06:00The average work week for all employees in the US ...The average work week for all employees in the US today, by the way, is 48.3 hours. http://www.familiesandwork.org/3w/research/downloads/3wes.pdf<br /><br />+HRCPr. H. R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16756503062523543708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-43151287088201732742012-11-10T16:02:07.122-06:002012-11-10T16:02:07.122-06:00Fr. Wurst,
A few years ago I asked a bunch of fri...Fr. Wurst,<br /><br />A few years ago I asked a bunch of friends to keep a diary of what they did through the week. 40-60 hours was average for these pastors. So I figure 50 hours is a rough average, while weeks north of 50 are common. Of course, shorter weeks happen too, that's the nature of averages. And I'm counting things like the time it takes pastors to drive back and forth to shut in visits and hospital calls, etc. <br /><br />This is pretty normal for professional salaried workers across the professions in the US today. The 40 hour work week was always an arbitrary creation of the Labor Movement and has never applied to salaried folks. Here's a link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/30/americans-now-view-40-hou_n_888231.html<br /><br />+HRCPr. H. R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16756503062523543708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-84343242358108750722012-11-10T13:30:07.690-06:002012-11-10T13:30:07.690-06:00Father Curtis, where did you get the 50+ hours in ...Father Curtis, where did you get the 50+ hours in paragraph 4? Statistics? Arbitrary? Experience?John Wursthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11984130666096167978noreply@blogger.com