tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post4587897248151165293..comments2023-11-05T02:55:10.230-06:00Comments on Gottesdienst Online: On RenovationPr. H. R.http://www.blogger.com/profile/16756503062523543708noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-40723588628732041282013-05-06T21:57:16.638-05:002013-05-06T21:57:16.638-05:00I think you are touching on a case where we think ...I think you are touching on a case where we think too liberally (as it were) of ourselves in the Gospel, calling this excess "pure", without expecting works.<br /><br />I lead the pure Christian life by not caring that you expect me to go to church--this is my devotion to the Gospel. My friend, however, leads an even purer life by not even believing.<br /><br />The solution, of course, is not to compound too liberal preachment with a mighty and forceful demonstration of works, as if to augment that over-conceptualization of freedom, for this is how arrogant heathen people think they are saved.<br /><br />I think the authors you quote were careful to moderate their words and not either over or underrate human powers in this renovation--something likewise counseled by the apostle when he says things like be "sober".<br /><br />If Law-Gospel becomes too macroscopic (or, in a completely different sense, microscopic) it loses stamina for practical matters and turns into a lex that requires stoic recitation of an <br />abstract concept in all circumstances. If it is too microscopic, on the other hand, it juggles between the two doctrines in a silly function, becoming absurd. It seems, therefore, that we should follow the simple and straightforward advice here, so long as we don't give way to unrealistic excesses. Hence "proper" distinction between Law and Gospel.jfphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04852358466585484316noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-83340146609995411122013-04-26T07:31:54.779-05:002013-04-26T07:31:54.779-05:00Oh, and I should say that Gerhard's discussion...Oh, and I should say that Gerhard's discussion is particularly good. He would ask you, "Are you going to Church? To Confession? Are you reading the Scriptures? Are you struggling against your sins? Are you receiving the Sacrament?" That's how renovation takes place. He would direct you both to struggle and fight sin, and he would direct you to the external gifts Christ has given in his Church to assure you that your struggle is not in vain. <br /><br />+HRCPr. H. R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16756503062523543708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-34766496807166588892013-04-26T07:29:22.887-05:002013-04-26T07:29:22.887-05:00I reckon by examining himself in comparison to the...I reckon by examining himself in comparison to the Law, repenting, returning to Christ for forgiveness, and seeking "to do better" (as Luther has it in his order for Confession). The dogmaticians talk about this at more length and it's worth reading. <br /><br />Another way to think about this is preaching the Law *for repentance.* Not the weak, general repentance that comes from a weak, general condemnation of sin in boiler plate sermon stock. "We're all sinners. We should repent. Jesus died for you." That's good; that's true. But it's hardly specific to me and my sins. It's easy to let such things wash over me without effect. All we preachers know this and it's why we admire preachers like Fr. Petersen who consistently preach the power of the Law directly and not as boilerplate.<br /><br />The preaching of the Law for repentance is more like: "Stop sleeping with someone who is not your wife. Repent." or "Stop looking at porn on the Internet. Repent." or "Quit telling lies to your boss about where you go for your lunch hour." As such, this preaching often takes place one on one. But there is a place for this direct call to repentance over specific sins in public preaching: "Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,2 10 nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."<br /><br />+HRCPr. H. R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16756503062523543708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-71743353000400986342013-04-26T07:20:13.178-05:002013-04-26T07:20:13.178-05:00Every square is a rectangle but not every rectangl...Every square is a rectangle but not every rectangle is a square. <br /><br />+HRCPr. H. R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16756503062523543708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-8464350778884709402013-04-25T21:02:08.578-05:002013-04-25T21:02:08.578-05:00"The Holy Scriptures expressly affirm that th...<i>"The Holy Scriptures expressly affirm that the renovation of the regenerate in this life ought continually to increase and grow, Eph. 4:16."</i><br /><br />How does the Christian know that his renovation in this life is continually increasing and growing? Rev. Thomas C. Messer, SSPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13740553600700598394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-81495188760855879032013-04-25T20:08:54.136-05:002013-04-25T20:08:54.136-05:00The topic was a certain aspect of Sanctification k...The topic was a certain aspect of Sanctification known as renovation (being made new again-in english) by some dogmatitions. <br />You are likening the two term in that "renovation" covers a certain aspect of Sanctification. (You stated that).<br />So, as an aspect of Sanctification, you are saying that renovation (knowledge, growing in faith, growing in good works) is a part of sanctification. <br />Am I correct?captaincatechismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05593896814958887004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-7455410530000819512013-04-25T19:55:55.371-05:002013-04-25T19:55:55.371-05:00No, according to my statement growing in knowledge...No, according to my statement growing in knowledge, growing in faith, growing in good works equals renovation. <br /><br />Really, I think the statements above from the Scriptures, the Confessions, and the dogmaticians speak for themselves, don't they? How would you summarize them? I tried my best for a summar at the beginning of the post. Let's see yours.<br /><br />+HRCPr. H. R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16756503062523543708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-63148313884118484192013-04-25T19:26:49.794-05:002013-04-25T19:26:49.794-05:00Ok, so according to your statement, "knowledg...Ok, so according to your statement, "knowledge, faith and good works" = Sanctification?captaincatechismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05593896814958887004noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-88839259457079750742013-04-25T10:56:54.875-05:002013-04-25T10:56:54.875-05:00And for good measure, here is a link to a summary ...And for good measure, here is a link to a summary of a new paper from Pastor Holger Sonntag on Luther and how he suggested we preach in the Antinomian Disputations: <br /><br />http://infanttheology.wordpress.com/2013/04/25/silent-no-more-luther-lays-down-the-law-on-how-to-preach-the-law-200-proof-version/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-61751921186330899042013-04-24T07:47:47.902-05:002013-04-24T07:47:47.902-05:00For anyone interested on more Luther on this, plea...For anyone interested on more Luther on this, please see this recent post on my blog which features my pastor's talk from a recent theology conference:<br /><br />http://infanttheology.wordpress.com/2013/04/22/the-saint-sinner-christian-life-driving-out-the-sin-that-remains/<br /><br />You'll find some very interesting diagrams there.<br /><br />+Nathan Nathanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18235437889789484774noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-50346162156542229442013-04-23T20:07:25.597-05:002013-04-23T20:07:25.597-05:00I recommend a reading of Schmid under "renova...I recommend a reading of Schmid under "renovation." Part of our problem is that we come to the debate with pre-packaged meanings attached to key words like "sanctification." I can see this several places in your glosses on the Biblical texts. For example, growing in knowledge is certainly part of our renovation, our renewal. How could it not be? You are afraid to put it under the category of "sanctification" because of the abuse of other sects on this topic. I think a reading of the dogmaticians on our renewal would dispel many of your worries. <br /><br />Or to say it more shortly: these verses from the Bible mean what they say. We are to grow in knowledge, faith, good works, etc. Of course our growth comes from the Spirit, and we also work and strive with the new powers the Spirit gives us. I invite you to call this process whatever you like, so long as we uphold what the Bible describes. Pr. H. R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16756503062523543708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-74242242680964001062013-04-23T18:50:26.854-05:002013-04-23T18:50:26.854-05:00Not a controverter, but I have a few questions of ...Not a controverter, but I have a few questions of clarity.<br /><br />1 Timothy 4:15 ...<br />--> "THESE THINGS" refers to setting an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity. As well as devotion to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, to teaching. Sanctification "being made Holy" means how you act and reading Scripture, teaching and exhortation?<br /><br />Ephesians 4:15...<br />--> This refers to the body working properly in order for it to grow. Is it our hope that we will "work properly"? Is that being made Holy? <br /><br />2 Thessalonians 1:3...<br />--> This says their faith is growing. Is faith Sanctification? Is my Sanctification based on my level of faith? <br /><br />2 Peter 3:18 ...<br />--> Are grace and knowledge synonyms of Sanctification? Can I be smart enough or can I "grace enough" to be sanctified?<br /><br />2 Corinthians 10:15...<br />--> Again, Is faith Sanctification? Is my Sanctification based on my level of faith?<br /><br />Colossians 1:9-10 ...<br />--> So, "KNOWLEDGE" equals "SANCTIFICATION". This is an enlightenment-era NIGHTMARE!<br /><br />1 Thessalonians 3:9-...<br />--> Here (and I believe we might be on to something) we see that if "LOVE" is indeed "SANCTIFICATION", it is a petition that God would cause this to grow. God gets the verbs... closer to Christian thinking than the others.<br /><br />2 Peter 1:5-10 ...<br />--> Here we have "SANCTIFICATION" being defined as "FAITH supplemented by VIRTUE, KNOWLEDGE, SELF-CONTROL, STEADFASTNESS, GODLINESS, BROTHERLY AFFECTION AND LOVE". Not only that, it says "If you practice these qualities, you will never οὐ μὴ πταίσητέ ποτε meaning STUMBLE, EVER". Once again, if we see a stumbler, we can say "Not Sanctified"?<br /><br />Philippians 1:25-26 ...<br />--> So once again, "FAITH" is a synonym with "Sanctification". Can I give faith? Can I (by my own reason or strength) cause faith to grow? <br /><br />Moving into the "extra-Scriptural" realm we have a quote from our Confessions.<br />Large Catechism, 3rd Art. Of Creed....<br /><br />-->I am seeing the author making an assumption of Sanctification where it is not explicitly stated. But there is the "NEW LIFE" reference. This is an interesting conclusion that you have drawn. Are you saying (or implying) that the "NEW MAN" is under our control (the Simul Justus et Peccator)? Is his growth somehow incomplete? Is his progress or "moving forward" controlled by us or by the Holy Spirit who gave him life? <br /><br />Things to ponder. I believe the previous articles should be made clear before even looking at other works/authors that we do not subscribe to on our ordination day.<br /><br />--BEH<br />captaincatechismhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05593896814958887004noreply@blogger.com