tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post7029892338675969004..comments2023-11-05T02:55:10.230-06:00Comments on Gottesdienst Online: The Authentic AlternativePr. H. R.http://www.blogger.com/profile/16756503062523543708noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-58879731940036569792014-10-31T12:42:41.377-05:002014-10-31T12:42:41.377-05:00Perhaps congregations should jettison the label &q...<i>Perhaps congregations should jettison the label "Lutheran" and stick with the label "Christian".</i> -- Mr. Davis<br /><br />An honest application of the label "Christian," to a congregation's outdoor marquee, implies a weekly worship which entails doctrine (true to the faith once delivered to the Apostles and saints, and preached for the hearing of those seeking God and His absolution of their sins); fellowship (which entails an <i>agape</i> sharing which goes beyond the hippodrome frolics, or a Bar-B-Q or an attendance at a minor league hockey game by the Lake Wobegon congregation ... and, I think, possesses antiphonal and other back-and-forth, shepherd-flock liturgical exchanges); the breaking of bread (as in the Lord's Supper, reverently and ritely managed); and prayers ... all according to Acts 2:42. As Fr. Beane rightly and confidently asserts, other trappings of a considerably looser sort, wherever and however found, are inauthentic and Spirit-starved. They won't last. <br /><br />Instead, things will move on to the <i>next</i> outrage.<br /><br />Perhaps Mr. Davis can encourage congregational use of the alternative term "Montanist," as opposed to "Christian," since the former description usefully allows for lady enthusiasts, Spirit inspiration outside of the Word and indeed, all sorts of innovations; such as maybe dropping the Sacrament so as to better snare the seekers out-en-mass (and out of Mass) on Christmas, Easter, and the ever-popular, ever high-calendrical feast of "Mother's Day." <br /><br />This latter idea has actually been touted by the WELS' well-intended but peculiar Institute of Worship and Outreach, which may be advised to change the order of its name, before messing with the ordos of the Christian/Lutheran Church. To be amicably fair to the IWO, favorably-disposed pastoral readers of the position paper <i>do</i> exist, and have publicly chirped about the "Mother's Day et al." concept in these compelling terms: <i>"It's a no-brainer!"</i><br /><br />To which sentiment I <i>can</i> but only agree, as to its derivative source. On the positive side, no arrangements were (yet) advanced for "Hallowe'en Sunday." <br /><br />There is a certain (if unsettling) logic behind the IWO's suggestion, however (cf. "Encyclopedia of Heresies and Heretics," Charles S. Clifton, p. 98-99, Barnes & Noble, New York, 1992). St. Epiphanius has disapprovingly cited the Montanist's special reverence towards Eve, who is indeed our primal mother ... the mother of all mankind, in fact. Evidently the Montanists saw it as a <i>good</i> thing that Eve was the very first human to prefer and choose the Tree of Knowledge over the Tree of Life, and thus accorded her exceeding honors. So I can easily see an official WELS' connection made by the IWO, between an eschewing of the Medicine of Immortality and "Mother's Day."<br /><br />Then again, to forestall interpretational difficulties and embarrassments of this very sort, the WELS might be richly blessed, and the "M.D." bust-out could Providentially fall on its "Service of the Word's" <i>regularly</i> set for the second and/or third and/or fourth and/or fifth Sunday of the month.<br /><br />And/or the first. For that matter, maybe we'll hit the real jackpot, and there might be <i>no</i> Sacrament for an <i>entire</i> quarter or so in the spring (Easter already being a non-communion day, for the best of strategic purposes), until the circuit-rider manages to show up. <br /><br />Granted, it's kind of tough living the spirit of the ancient Christians and of the winged angels, when it appears that we contemporaries are still saddled with the schedules belonging to the black-buggy, riding crop and flesh of hooved 19th century horses. But not to fear! Many "with-it" (as well as so-called "conservative") congregations schedule the dose of vital medicine in that way. So why not you? <br /><br />Your (unworthy) servant,<br />Herr Doktor Michael L. Anderson, M.D., Ph.Dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13158953802996685938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-69592958812815554712014-10-27T23:01:53.275-05:002014-10-27T23:01:53.275-05:00>>Is LCMS the only way? I heard that in the ...>>Is LCMS the only way? I heard that in the 1950's<br /><br />Dr. C.F.W. Walther, First President of the LCMS and Concordia Seminary, June 19, 1885: <br /><br />“Though we esteem our Church highly, may this abominable, fanatical notion be far from us, that our Lutheran Church is the alone-saving Church! The true Church extends throughout the world and is found in all denominations . . . Anyone who believes in Jesus Christ and is a member of His spiritual body is a member of the Church. . . We have this precious promise in Isaiah 55:11: ‘My Word shall not return unto Me void.’ Wherever the Word of God is proclaimed and confessed or even recited during the service, the Lord is gathering a people for Himself. . . there are always some children of God in these communities because they have the Word of God, which is always bearing fruit in converting some souls to God.” <br /><br />[“Law and Gospel,” 32nd Evening Lecture, Concordia Publishing House; German edition, 1897; English translation, 1929, p. 337]<br /><br />Dr. Franz Pieper, President of the LCMS and Concordia Seminary, 1920:<br /><br />“Though God desires that all congregations be orthodox . . . still it is a fact that also in the heterodox communions there are believing children of God. . . The Fathers of the Missouri Synod . . . taught: If a person sincerely clings to the cardinal doctrine of the Christian faith, if he believes that God is gracious to him because of Christ’s vicarious satisfaction, he is a member of the Christian Church, no matter in which ecclesiastical camp he may be.” <br /><br />[“Christian Dogmatics,” Concordia Publishing House; German edition, 1920; English translation, 1953, Vol. 3, p. 423f]<br />Kebashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01612781671623633300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-44954053180301279152014-10-27T14:07:51.684-05:002014-10-27T14:07:51.684-05:00I agree! If a church doesn't want to be Luthe...I agree! If a church doesn't want to be Lutheran, it should choose a label more fitting with its confession for the sake of honesty. Rev. Larry Beanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06705910892752648940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-89218924363454661572014-10-27T14:03:35.606-05:002014-10-27T14:03:35.606-05:00Thank you for the clarification.
Perhaps congregat...Thank you for the clarification.<br />Perhaps congregations should jettison the label "Lutheran" and stick with the label "Christian". Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04314080476382907548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-67140538808012489622014-10-27T13:42:03.595-05:002014-10-27T13:42:03.595-05:00Dear Jim:
"Are you saying that the LCMS is t...Dear Jim:<br /><br />"Are you saying that the LCMS is the only way to salvation?"<br /><br />I don't know how anyone could draw such a conclusion from what I wrote. But in case you have this impression, your impression is not just wrong, but diametrically so. The Book of Concord does not say that only Lutherans are saved. In fact, the BOC never uses the word "Lutheran." Articles 7 and 8 define the Church in a way that makes any Lutheran who believes that only Lutherans are saved to be violating the Lutheran confessions themselves.<br /><br />I wasn't born until the 1960s, so I can't speak to your experiences in the 1950s LCMS. I suspect many of our churches did not celebrate the Mass every Sunday then either. Two wrongs do not make a right.<br /><br />Once again, to be authentically Lutheran is to embrace the Book of Concord, including this: "In our churches Mass is celebrated every Sunday and on other festivals when the sacrament is offered to those who wish for it after they have been examined and absolved. We keep traditional liturgical forms, such as the order of the lessons, prayers, vestments, etc." <br /><br />The fact that I enjoy 1980s big hair heavy metal, Austrian Economics, my cats, and my motorcycle have zero to do with what the Book of Concord says about divine worship. Worship is not about what I like, feel comfortable with, or are "turned on" by. It's not about us and our wants, but about our Lord and what He gives us by grace - to satisfy what we need. I think this is a crucial distinction between entertainment worship - which tickles the ears - and traditional worship - which proclaims the Word and saves us from our sins. The former may be temporally comfortable, but the latter truly delivers eternal comfort.<br /><br />There are a lot of Christians who are not Lutheran. Church growth advocates and liturgy-naysayers should be honest and jettison the label "Lutheran" if they don't want to be Lutheran. A lot of Christians are bereft of the blessings of worship that doesn't just fit one demographic, but transcends space, time, and culture. But to be Lutheran, by definition, accepts the Book of Concord. That is built in to the very concept of authenticity.<br /><br />I hope that clarifies things.Rev. Larry Beanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06705910892752648940noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-19433088190374777312014-10-27T12:42:58.697-05:002014-10-27T12:42:58.697-05:00Are you saying that LCMS is the only way to salvat...Are you saying that LCMS is the only way to salvation?<br />Are all other churches wrong and are they all leading people to hell?<br />For people who like traditional worship and feel comfortable with it, let it be offered.<br />For people who are turned off by that format, offer the message of God's love and forgiveness with a style that communicates the message.<br />Is LCMS the only way? I heard that in the 1950's, I did not expect to read that now. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04314080476382907548noreply@blogger.com