tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post3051735169399973181..comments2023-11-05T02:55:10.230-06:00Comments on Gottesdienst Online: Trouble in our sister church, SELKPr. H. R.http://www.blogger.com/profile/16756503062523543708noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-51460128095115505572011-07-26T13:28:07.946-05:002011-07-26T13:28:07.946-05:00The SELK, even being the merger of the old Luthera...The SELK, even being the merger of the old Lutherans, is still a pitifully small church of about 40,000 members in a country of 80 million people. You'd think that in such a tiny organization maintaining unity of doctrine on WO couldn't be such a dificult issue. And, how could they have convention after convention and keep tabling the issue to a committee as in, "absolutely no WO, and the committee will continue to discuss it." Reminds me of Woody Allen's remark about his broker who invests his money for him until it's all gone. We discuss an absolute no until we get an absolute yes. And, there are economic reasons to be patient, every Euro counts in the SELK, and counts more than once.<br />And, both the SELK and the Baden church are surrounded by Evangelical churches with WO. You can't swing a stick in Baden or the rest of Germany, without hitting an Evangelical church with WO and its concommitant doctrinal woes. If the little salty pay-as-you-go churches lose their saltiness, why would anyone pay the extra price? They won't be old Lutherans anymore.<br />But this is the same ineluctable reasoning that confronts me whenever I hear people wanting the LC-MS to be some other church. My brain thinks, "Don't you know, old Lutherans purpose-founded this little group of churches to be the true visible church on earth based on the Lutheran Confessions? If you're not into that purpose-founding raison d'entre, why are you here bothering this tiny little group of churches. Leave them alone to follow their purpose. Who sent you here to oppose the whole purpose of this group's founding?"<br />Why, a committee of the LWF sent Mrs. Heubner (sp.) to Baden to sabotage their old Lutheranism and they were ready for it, as are some in SELK. Only 40,000 out of 80 million are left, why must they have total subjection?Joannehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09777514643611989502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-68793557818513263662011-07-21T15:55:31.619-05:002011-07-21T15:55:31.619-05:00Paul, I understand your concern. 17 years is a lon...Paul, I understand your concern. 17 years is a long time without doing anything about this error, but it wouldn't be the first time for the LCMS to do such a thing. If I'm not mistaken, we did the same in the 60's when declaring fellowship with the ALC, which was in fellowship with the LCA. Thank God we eventually saw the errors of such a decision and repented. <br /><br />With concerns over our other "triangular fellowships," they are church bodies that desire to or already are in the process of breaking with the LWF. This situation with the ELKiB is a step in the wrong direction. By supporting "Pro Ecclesia" we bolster their voice in calling the ELKiB to repentance. I think as "Big Sister" it is our duty to defend the Gospel and Confessional Lutheranism where ever it maybe under attack. There's my two cents.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-24844822633385083022011-07-21T15:39:07.135-05:002011-07-21T15:39:07.135-05:00Fr. Rydecki,
I think the short answer to your que...Fr. Rydecki,<br /><br />I think the short answer to your question is: No and Yes. No because we don't recognize such triangles. We have not declared fellowship with the ELKiB, SELK has. That fellowship doesn't "transfer by contact." <br /><br />On the other hand, Yes, the LCMS does have fellowship with other Lutheran bodies that similarly have ties to bad groups. It mainly happens like this: struggling Confessional church (or bishop struggling to re-Confessionalize his church) has fellowship with MO, where their heart lies, they send us their students, etc; but they also have ties to LWF. <br /><br />I can think of three or four of our partner churches in such situations. Our hope is that by staying connected to them we can keep LWF from taking over. I think it is working in our relationships in the Baltics and Africa. <br /><br />It's a messy business, to be sure, but the bet is that by being patient and staying connect through education, donations, etc., we will keep more indigenous Lutheran churches from falling into the clutches of the wretched LWF. For example, with the LCMS's support Latvia would almost certainly be ordaining women today and in the full embrace and influence of LWF. Like a good sibling we close our eyes to some of Latvia's faults as she tries to undo the wretched condition she entered under Communist rule. <br /><br />+HRCPr. H. R.https://www.blogger.com/profile/16756503062523543708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-33791543785187071672011-07-21T12:49:39.330-05:002011-07-21T12:49:39.330-05:00I'd sign the letter, if I could. It's ver...I'd sign the letter, if I could. It's very encouraging to see men in Germany and here standing up for the Truth of God's Word.<br /><br />I'm all in favor of patiently instructing those who err and not immediately breaking fellowship and walking off in a huff.<br /><br />But it sounds like a triangular fellowship has existed for 17 years among the SELK, the LCMS and the ELKiB, from the time the ELKiB officially adopted a heterodox position on WO. How long can an orthodox pastor/congregation/synod tolerate heterodoxy within its fellowship (whether in doctrine or practice or both)? Are there other triangular fellowships out there that the LCMS has been tolerating? I don't know the answer, just asking the question.Rev. Paul A. Rydeckihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01447491206453142100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4778905687600416321.post-49938628687296639222011-07-21T11:37:31.133-05:002011-07-21T11:37:31.133-05:00This is very troubling. Accepting the ordination o...This is very troubling. Accepting the ordination of women has proven in denomination after denomination to be the downfall of faithfulness to the Holy Scriptures and the doorway through which multiple abuses, scandals and heresies have entered. Lord, have mercy upon Your Church! Keep her faithful in the face of an unbelieving and hostile world.Rev. Jim Roemkehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08765590533573457596noreply@blogger.com